James Landay, "Balance between design and technology to Tackle global challenges"
Max Warburton Warburton and his team, Bernstein Research has assembled a team to interview more than 40 Chinese auto executives in China and foreign-born and even bought two Chinese cars Geely and Great Wall Warburton was sent to the Europe, where they were taken to a test track, largely led and dismantled by engineers and auto consultants and it was far from enough.
Warburton and his band have assembled a report of over 200 pages that epic is a part primer on product development, a guide part Spotter at the Chinese domestic auto industry and a road test function part that rivals anything spell books buff or Consumer Reports is dense, fact filled and will take a good few hours to read and absorb.
The first 64 pages are devoted to the ins and outs of the Chinese auto industry Warburton deftly takes us through the various actors and their nicknames broken English Great Wall, Chery, Brilliance and the like, or complete files on everyone who is in bed with which successful JVs and even interviews with executives where they are invited to praise and criticize various Chinese automakers the consensus seems to be that SAIC is miles before everyone especially through their collaboration with GM.
An OEM leader who had recently left GM China argued part of the problem is that international manufacturers are not taking their responsibilities seriously GM joint ventures being the only exception What does it take to make a joint venture is successful and benefits Chinese side.
I was part of GM when they put a lot of effort in China, I used to see CEO Rick Wagoner in China almost every month he really spent much time here, especially with politicians and they spent million in Chinese universities to good citizens they have built a style studio, they've built a 6 RMB1 billion proving ground, they've sent their best products in China they have built the engineering function, they went from 400 engineers in 2005 to 2000 in 2008, now they're 2500 they an engineering center 100 able they are really serious, you have to be serious here, but many foreign manufacturers are not.
Also in the good books is the Great Wall With advanced engineering prowess, the Great Wall and pay their suppliers on time supplies apparently a major problem among the design offices and experts foreign-born, according Warburton, are responsible for the vast majority of what the auto industry of China granted.
People who Warburton interivews engineering firms tend to be extremely bearish on the managers of the Chinese automotive industry are largely drawn from the politburo, engineers are portrayed as incompetent and cutting corners is said to be a fashion life According to an officer, a mistake is only a mistake if you found an automobile insider believes that most Chinese sedans in recent times have been reverse engineered copies of the Toyota Corolla They key dimensions and hard points are identical, and he believes that frankly, the Chinese auto industry is not capable of ensuring its own car from scratch again, they are obsessed with VW for shooting matching shot, but their nature and Thrifty obstruction forward inevitably their success.
They are obsessed with corresponding VW but we generally recommend that they would be better to go for a rear suspension torsion beam with three components, with little to go wrong rather than a multi-link with 20 they will then screw up into production to emulate VW or Ford they need to control tolerances in an incredibly tight range and end up a long way.
On the way, we discover that if Toyota and VW spend in the neighborhood of about $ 10 billion on R & D every year, Chinese companies spend about 100 million, largely a combination of stinginess and not have to do so through to the existing technology reverse engineering drive device at high speed through a 22-mile bridge illustrates the concrete results of this cutting angle.
Later this week, we meet Frank Zhao, head of R & D Geely We mention the apparent lack of wind stability through the Geely EC8 and ask how long the car had spent in the wind tunnel during its development M . Zhao is honest, and recognizes that Geely didnt a wind tunnel there are only two in China, and because of product development alimited budget, it must choose where to spend his money M. Zhao said that Geely decided not to sharpen the EC8 in a wind tunnel, because most of the high-speed don t leave the cities and very little training customers on bridges money was instead spent on browsing electronic functions satellite, etc. and solid base of engineering and we agree, that the body seemed stiff, and noise, vibration and harshness NVH were well controlled a ride in a EC8 encapsulates where development the Chinese car is currently bases are well cars are adequate, but they are not world class, in our opinion.
Around page 71, the fun begins, the team procures, imports and test drove two Chinese cars Geely EC7 and the Great Wall H5 Rather than spoil the outcome for you, I encourage you all to wear a particular attention to the disassembly part, for a look quite fascinating about the ins and outs of a Chinese car There are some elements that were Adored; the side panel of the body of Geely, stamped from a single piece, has been described as deeply impressive and beautiful by European engineering consultants, but engineers and test drives found multiple flaws with the car; shabby welds on site, malfunctioning HVAC systems, corroding parts and body panels after only a few hundred kilometers Ben Oliver, one of the best British car journalists, was asked to give his point of view, it said the Great Wall to be terrible.
The report seems to conclude that it will take at least a decade before the Chinese are ready to field a competitive product, they do not work anywhere near the same skill as a Western carmaker, and hired foreign aid brought to make them succeed are quickly frustrated by the lack of progress and bad attitude.
But Warburton and his team after inspecting the successor Great Wall H6 H5 are impressed with the progress that's been made in the construction of the body-on-frame, the thirsty engine Mitsubishi and raw genius seem to have been dropped in favor of a much safer and more effective cross Warburton noted that such progress would take a few product cycles traditional OEM in past eras and has impressed There is clearly a significant leap forward compared to H5, says Warburton If it is that the Great Wall can reach in 15 months can build a Bugatti Veyron rival by 2014.
EDIT Bernstein asked that the report be withdrawn The report was generously provided TTAC but it was not intended for mass dissemination We apologize for the misunderstanding.
In Brazil, we have had experience with Chinese cars for 3 or 4 years now A picture is emerging, I'll give you some of the highlights.
JAC came and started selling a lot of cars at a good price point The first automatic mag purchased by one for their long-term test Despite some electronic gremlins early, when they pulled the car out at 60k km they said well put No 3 editions later, they ran a story where the JAC owners complained of rust formation on new cars and almost newish brand on the hood, wheelwells, hatching other sites have shown constant problems with door locks, power windows, ACs so it seems the basic engineering is there but little attention to detail and finish.
Vans When they arrived, they stormed the market Seemed like all small businesses bought a Soon, they were abandoned in mass Although the initial cost was deemed correct, as costs maintenance, downtime was too much to bear.
These are the big sellers so far Chery QQ and MUV have good starting Again, basic stuff okay, but the finish is so bad that cars are very hard sell in the secondary market.
From what I see, I agree with the report JAC cars for example, they start, they go, they brake But there is no finesse The lack of finesse is visible on the roads to eaxample You see but you can see the pilots struggled to keep the cars on the road, you can see excessive body motion in curves, on all but the most perfect asphalt, they bob and weave.
I have said before on TTAC The people I talk Fiat were first very afraid of the cars they bought some, was tested them and was told not to approach them they just are not ready, they talked interesting that in the same time line report in 10 years of history could be radically different.
JAC is trying to sell a light truck Isuzu Clone Well, it has all the right elements, but is a total failure as a vehicle even with Chinese bus automotive products are still derived, no originality at all.
And how do you think the Japanese and the Koreans started.
There are many years they were the Chinese Industry Show were they re now.
What is really interesting Having had first hand experience with Chinese cars in the domestic market, I am both consistent and skeptical of some of the findings.
There seems to be a common theme in most Western assessments of Chinese cars.
The first observation is that they are always looking at second smaller sometimes third-party ranks, which are not up to much, even in their markets.
Companies like Geely, Chery, Landwind, Great Wall, Soueast, Trumpchi JAC are all bit players, often supported by a base component with interest.
Chery, for example, is strongly supported by the government of his home province, Anhui JAC His rival Crosstown is a truck manufacturer who dabbles in the manufacture of passenger vehicles as it also belongs to the provincial building two cars as much to achieve the policy objectives of low unemployment figures and regional pride, as it does to actually make a profit.
Landwind, produced by Jiangling Motor Holding Ltd. is closely linked to the Chinese military that is more like a large commercial conglamorate in various sectors.
Trumpchi is based in Guangzhou, and is indirectly supported by the local government, in order to divert federal funds for the development of the automotive industry in South China Given the more convenient access to heavy industrial infrastructure of others, and higher labor costs in southern China coast, there is little reason to make cars out there, other than political regional interests.
The fact that Western automotive publications focus on these smaller manufacturers have a distorted view of the Chinese automotive sector as a whole would be similar to someone commenting on the Japanese auto industry, looking only Suzuki and Daihatsu, excluding Toyota and Nissan.
While is it is probably true that SAIC is one of the largest manufacturers of state, I can not see their products as much better than the other two major entities belonging to the State, DongFeng Nissan JV partner FAW joint venture partner of Audi and Toyota, among others.
You will notice that these companies, the recent venture except the Indian market GM-SAIC-Wuling decided not to export it is not a coincidence these companies, either through their own brands or joint venture brands have a captive home market they know the challenges that have to compete with global players outside of China they also walk a mandate from the government not to export until they are ready.
These limitations are not imposed on players bit, many see the export to Third World countries as the only way to survive the reality at home is that with greater consolidation, they would not be able to survive in a mature domestic market by exporting to emerging markets of the Middle East and Africa where both emission and safety standards are lax, they have a very good chance of being able to compete on price even if their products are less than stellar.
Did you catch the new images of the civil war in Libya Note that in addition to Toyota trucks, Chinese truck manufacturer ZTE seems to be a strong enough presence to government forces and rebels Why would someone choose a Chinese knock Isuzu off on the legendary Toyota Hilux in 1 3 new price, there are many willing takers.
The point is, while the Bernstein report makes entertaining reading, it is a small sample of two units of two small manufacturers, who are not all that impressive even in their markets.
Maybe Bernstein can disassemble a Dodge Avenger, to assess the current state of the US auto industry.
The following is one interesting link LOOK Chinese vehicles.
The reality is that China's economy will overtake the United States and the eurozone combined and art in some of the employees on the life of this site at that time, the Chinese will have to become a capitalist democracy or it to fail at.
I understand people's concerns about China, but we must work on ways to integrate with them, especially economically.
trends in Chinese vehicles will eventually play an important role in all vehicles in the world.
Imagine someone in the 1950s, saying that technology and the Japanese design and euro-US impact vehicles significantly You would have been ridiculous.
I figure in 10 years of Chinese vehicles will be equivalent to other Asian producers of quality, but cheaper.
The Chinese will do what the Europeans did two centuries ago and that the United States has done recently and is flexing its economic muscle to influence.
We haven t seen reliability issues here in Australia as bad as some of the comments below.
Or, is a case of suppliers in a country not providing sufficient quality control of themselves and assiting with the development of the vehicle.
We have the Great Wall ute here and there were some problems they seem to sell very well and they have been on the market for years.
The Great Wall ute is an inverse vehicle designed using a Toyota Surf frame body Izuzu and used to use a Mitsubishi drivetrain.
Who is Jeremy Clarkson and why we care even in his opinion, there are hundreds of journalists in the world and everyone has the Chinese opinion are dynamic company and they soon learn they take the world by storm when British and other Europeans, including Russians insolvent companies and slowly die if I remember many Japanese and Korean cars were considered a shit there for some time and this guy Clarkson probably evaluated and I bet the still works like crap it is interesting to know whether his views on British cars Oh, forgot, there are no British car part wasn t Rover imitation crap Honda Civic.
M. Zhao said that Geely has taken the decision not to sharpen the EC8 in a wind tunnel, because most customers don t leave the cities and very few high speed driving on bridges.
Is like saying to a group of Pygmies who spend their entire lives inside the pyramids on forests, horses buffalo as they come close to those great objects, they swear is u re witch craft shooting them it was a true reading of a story intro psych text book thirty years ago a little.
The report seems to conclude that it will take at least a decade before the Chinese are ready to field a competitive product.
No problem as long as they can fly off the shelf or sold like hotcakes in the middle kingdom that I care bet with the speed of a car crawling out with 1 hp 3 cyl motor tecumseh lawn mower when merc sale AC sedans in hk they were not worry about power, but worry about the cooling power in a giant parking lot they require moving large additional rads and jap cars were quite ahead of them then.
Or during the old days most cars made in the US of A have been designed to go straight and go out with a steering lock on the central position as the roads here are as right as fast forward arrow a little soon we are diluted with Porsches Vee Dubs we begin to ask questions like why our land barge can not really run as well as small cars has everyone tried to take exon valdez a navy slalom course probably taken 20 miles from shore left to right, using tug 20 to push on the sides.
It's cheap, and maybe it worked well in Libya, but I wonder how long.
Exactly if Fuhrer had water in their Panzerwagen namely Tiger tanks, he could have won more battles instead of build quality that will last forever, they would have traded quantity to quality.
It has much to do with the expectations of customers and the amount they can afford.
At present, they move away because customers buy a car as long as they do not cost much as the lack of wind tunnel testing, the CEO is right on clients not really use such as the United STATES and European drivers use their car so that you end up with many first generation of drivers buy first generation cars as customers expect increasingly can not afford, automakers will be more attention and do more.
Yes, it would take at least ten years unless they buy a company like Volvo, Mitsubishi if the Japanese will reduce its pride and let the Chinese buy Saab, or hire all retired engineers and graduates Europe US to clean the mess.
Drzhivago138 - CPR conducted a clone KITT The moral of the story was, don t meet your heroes look v 93VlRnRPk9k.
Re Tesla owner Torn Find A-pillar on the freshly delivered Model S.
Drzhivago138 - With the way the sloping rear rooflines are, and how short the trunklids are, we might as well have tailgates on everything.
Re Honda Civic Si reveals specs Type R after Buzz Dies Down.
Tedward - Malforus I agree that Ford has won probably not going mechanical LSD, I think they will do what is vw and install a clutch pack out.
Re gaffe Site Reveals 2018 Buick Regal V6 engine GS model.
Newenthusiast - I like the idea of what I would expect more than this seems to be perfect long-distance commuter.
Re Subaru Outback 2018 with a sentence dirty good.
find 30-mile - CVTs are limited in their minimum ratio at a rate six to eight suitable automatic I noticed that most of CVT-equipped cars.
Re Tesla owner Torn Find A-pillar on the freshly delivered Model S.
Here4aSammich - Puh-leeze Everyone knows that it was the Russians.
EXCLUSIVE Bernstein Research dissects literally Cars Chinese automotive industry The report 200Page, bernstein, research, Chinese cars.
7434 Бернштайн, Австрия